Napoleon's sea soldiers

[Flambeau]

Hi there,

I'm looking for information on the French marines for the period of 1810-1814 (not the the Marines of the Guard). Apparently some units were used in the Peninsular Campaign, but I can't find any information and the web gives a variety of uniforms. Any information as to uniforms and campaigns would be great!

[Zed1]

Good question. Most sources refer to the Naval artillery that was frequently used in land battles. There's little to find about naval infantry but the few pictures that I have reveal a very simple blue uniform - but a special hat, similar to that of the British marines or colonial infantry. So convertions should not be that much of a problem.




Maybe you take a closer look on the 1st and 2nd Régiment d'Infanterie de Marine, which both fought at the battle of Leipzig in 1813 and in the 1814 campaign in France.

[Flambeau]

Thanks! The last picture is from the "Bourgeois de Hambourg", didn't think of that one, though I have it in my library. There's also a picture of marines (non Guard) wearing shakos as in the first picture. I suppose they prefered the hat when serving on board, but the shako may have been more common when serving on land. As you said, it seems to be a difficult question. The uniforms are a bit confusing Funcken has a grey uniform and I have a Del Prado miniature (after an Osprey illustration) of a French marine in red who looks VERY British. It seems a lot of different outfits were worn at different times.
Thanks also for reminding me of their participation in the battle of Leipzig. According to the order of battle in the Osprey Campaign book there were actually four Naval regiments present (1.-4., in Marmonts Corps). Poorly documented units it seems, most authors seem to focus on the Marines of the Guard (perhaps because they had the nicer uniforms?)

[Flambeau]

Today I got a very comprehensive reply to my question from a user at the Strelets' Forum, together with a lot of useful links to pictures and further information.
For anybody interested in the subject I put his information here in full:

"Handlewithcare
May 28, 2021 - 7:02AM

ReplyTo Flambeau - Napoleon's sea soldiers

You asked for information on Napoleon's sea soldiers over on Benno's Forum.

Please note, there were no marines (meaning "Marineinfanterie") strictly speaking in the Napoleonic French army, only sailors and other naval personnel who were organized (and reorganized) into various units who fought both at sea and on land (often as infantry) and had different uniforms, as prescribed by a number of regulations.

However, the vast majority of information is in French. There is nothing in German and just a little in English. You seem to be German and as most Germans probably don't read French. Sorry for you.

René Chartrand's Osprey title on Napoleon's sea soldiers seems to be the best available in English at the time though it's not without mistakes. For example, he missed out some regulations and, accordingly, some of Francis Back's artwork is erroneous as well. The plate posted on Benno's, for example, shows an officer meant to be a "lieutenant de vaisseau" but wearing the epaulettes of a "capitaine de vaisseau" - two epaulettes with thick fringes when he should be wearing an épaulette with thin fringes on the left, and a contre-épaulette (without fringes) on the right (i.e., same rank insignia as that of an army captain; "capitaine de vaisseau" corresponds to an army colonel).

The Suhr watercolours are contemporary and I like them very much but, unfortunately, they aren't always reliable either. In the case of the plate shown (I refer to the original not to the copy posted over at Benno's), the naval officer ("en petite tenue") too is wearing the epaulettes of a "capitaine de vaisseau", with thick fringes on both shoulders but the two lace bars that should adorn his collar are missing, and he has not even a sabre belt and scabbard.

Perhaps, for the time being, the most comprehensive overview online on the various navy units and uniforms is that of "Le Garde Chauvin", but it is in French:. Just in case you want to give it a try ...

https://www.garde-chauvin.com/

Click "Nos recherches", and then "Les différents corps militaires" and "Uniformologie".

Some nice pictures can be found elsewhere, e.g. here ...

http://miniaturasmilitaresalfonscanovas ... oleon.html

Charmy, however, is a bit superficial and not without mistakes either. E.g., the "Aspirant en 1810 (d'après Dubois de l'Étang)" on the second picture has really nothing to do with the Napoleonic era but belongs to the 1820s at the earliest, and more likely to the 1830s or 1840s.

More pictures here (don't let the thread title "Infanterie de Marine Française" confuse you because - as mentioned before and also stated in the last contribution there - there was no "Infanterie de marine" in the French Napoleonic army ), by Patrice Courcelle. But even the reknown Courcelle has the epaulettes of the two "lieutenants de vaisseau" shown on the third plate (figures 2 and 3) not right and, accordingly, the corresponding notes on "Les Grades dans la Marine ..." aren't correct either.

https://new-wab.forumactif.org/t3467-in ... -francaise

And, finally, some more plates showing the dress of the "rank and file" on board ships by Michel Pétard.

http://miniaturasmilitaresalfonscanovas ... -1808.html"

Thanks again to Handlewithcare for posting this information and allowing me to replicate it here!